Nilesh Oak - How old are the Itihasas, Ramayana and Mahabharata?

 The age of ancient events is often determined through archaeology. Excavations, artifacts, structures, and other remains found above and below the ground are among the primary sources used to establish historical timelines. But is archaeology alone enough?

This is where Nilesh Oak's work becomes interesting. A chemical engineer with an Executive MBA, he shifted his focus to researching ancient Indian chronology. His approach examines the Ramayana and Mahabharata using multiple disciplines, including archaeology, astronomy, paleontology, geography, geology, genetics and oceanography. By correlating astronomical observations, geographical locations, geological events, oceanic changes, and evidence of ancient animals, he attempts to estimate when the events described in these epics may have occurred.

For example, the Ramayana and Mahabharata contain hundreds of references to the positions of stars and planets during significant events. Some of these references were long considered impossible. However, with modern astronomical software, researchers have found that certain celestial configurations could indeed have occurred thousands of years ago.

One well-known example is the Arundhati–Vashistha observation. In Hindu tradition, Vashistha (identified with the star Mizar in the Big Dipper) appears slightly ahead of Arundhati (Alcor). The two stars symbolize the devoted couple Vashistha and Arundhati and are traditionally shown to newly married couples. However, the Mahabharata contains a passage that has been interpreted as describing Arundhati appearing ahead of Vashistha. For a long time, this was considered impossible. Modern astronomical simulations have suggested that such an apparent configuration could have occurred during a specific period in the distant past. Based on this and other astronomical evidence, Nilesh Oak argues that the events of the Mahabharata took place around 5561 BCE—approximately 7,500 years ago—rather than around 5,000 years ago, which is a more commonly cited traditional estimate.

Similarly, Oak's research proposes that the events of the Ramayana occurred roughly 12,000 years ago. One piece of supporting evidence he discusses is the reference in Valmiki's Ramayana to four-tusked elephants. While such animals may sound mythical today, paleontological studies have identified extinct elephant species with four tusks that lived in prehistoric times. From this perspective, references that might initially appear mythical could instead reflect observations of animals that actually existed during that era.

Another example is the submergence of Dwaraka. According to tradition, the city was flooded by the sea. Oak relates this to studies in oceanography and geology that indicate significant sea-level changes and coastal flooding occurred in various parts of the world after the last Ice Age. He suggests that these findings are consistent with descriptions preserved in the epic tradition.

Nilesh connects genetics to Mahabharatha. According to some genetic studies, there appears to have been a significant reduction in Y-chromosome diversity around 7,500 years ago, suggesting a period during which relatively few male lineages contributed to later generations. Some researchers have speculated that this genetic bottleneck may have coincided with widespread conflicts or other social changes. Some proponents have further suggested a possible connection with the Mahabharata war, proposing that the large-scale loss of male lives described in the epic could explain such a pattern.

According to Nilesh Oak, the Lanka described in the Ramayana is not present-day Sri Lanka. He proposes that modern Sri Lanka was likely part of Ravana's larger kingdom or empire, while the actual city of Lanka was located elsewhere and was later submerged beneath the ocean.

It is through Nilesh Oak's talks, I knew about the YouTube channel "21 Notes : Valmiki Ramayana". 

Whether or not one agrees with all of his conclusions, his research presents an interdisciplinary approach that combines evidence from several scientific fields to examine the chronology of the Ramayana and Mahabharata. His central argument is that these epics are based on real historical events that occurred in the distant past, rather than being purely mythical narratives.

This is one his talks... There are many you can find in Youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AenJPuZBsxU

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Insights from the Valmiki Ramayana (21 Notes)

 As mentioned earlier, much of today's literature and audio/video retellings focus primarily on the narrative ("story form") of the Ramayana. As a result, it is often difficult to appreciate the deeper intent and historical perspective of an Itihasa such as the Ramayana or the Mahabharata. Reading the original Valmiki Ramayana provides a different perspective and offers clarity on many commonly misunderstood ideas.

Some examples:

What exactly is a Rākṣasa?

A Rākṣasa is not portrayed as a separate species. They are human beings. While some are exceptionally powerful or commit heinous acts, they are not described as possessing supernatural physical features such as Ravana's popular depiction with ten heads and twenty arms. Ravana wearing a crown with to show 10 heads and sitting on a throne which shows 20 hands are possible interpretations of his supernatural form. 

Ravana himself was born to Sage Vishrava and Kaikesi (a Raksasi), while his brother Vibhishana is presented as righteous and virtuous. Valmiki's descriptions of the inhabitants of Lanka also differ significantly from later artistic portrayals. Many Rākṣasas are described as handsome, well-built, and fair-complexioned rather than monstrous.

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Was Hanuman literally a monkey?

The Vānaras are described as forest-dwelling people rather than literal monkeys. They were knowledgeable in the Vedas, Shastras, warfare, diplomacy, and statecraft.

One possible interpretation is that they belonged to forest tribes whose identity or attire included monkey-like symbols, masks, or tails, much as various tribal cultures across the world have traditionally worn animal masks or horned headgear. The term Vānara may therefore represent a cultural identity rather than a biological species.

A useful modern analogy is the horned headgear occasionally worn by Norwegian football fans, including those supporting the famous football star Erling Haaland, during sporting events. The headgear is symbolic—it does not make them animals. In a similar way, the Vānaras may have worn monkey-like masks, headgear, or artificial tails as part of their tribal identity, rather than being literal monkeys.

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How is Hanuman's journey to Lanka described?

A close reading of the Valmiki Ramayana allows for a natural interpretation of Hanuman's journey. Rather than imagining sustained flight across the ocean, it is a remarkable crossing of the ocean by swimming and traversing islands or rocky outcrops.

Similarly, the episode of Mainaka Mountain rising from the sea may be understood as an island or submerged landmass becoming visible during low tide, while the encounter with Surasa or the force that attempts to swallow Hanuman can be interpreted as a description of a powerful whirlpool. 

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Bhagiratha and the descent of the Ganga

The story of Bhagiratha bringing the Ganga to Earth may also be viewed beyond its symbolic narrative. It can be understood as an extraordinary effort to channel water from the Himalayan regions to the plains—an immense civil engineering achievement.

The description that Shiva received the force of the descending Ganga before releasing it gradually can be seen as a poetic way of expressing the need to regulate the flow of mountain waters, preventing destructive flooding and distributing the water through multiple stages.

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Does the Ramayana describe the water cycle?

A remarkable verse from the **Valmiki Ramayana (Kishkindha Kāṇḍa, Sarga 27, Verse 3)** poetically describes what closely resembles the modern understanding of the water cycle.

नव मास धृतं गर्भं भास्करस्य गभस्तिभिः ।
पीत्वा रसं समुद्राणां द्यौः प्रसूते रसायनम् ॥

Transliteration

nava māsa dhṛtaṃ garbhaṃ bhāskarasya gabhastibhiḥ |
pītvā rasaṃ samudrāṇāṃ dyauḥ prasūte rasāyanam ||

Meaning

"The sky, having borne an embryo for nine months through the rays of the Sun, after absorbing the waters of the oceans, gives birth to the life-giving nectar—rain."

The imagery is striking. The Sun's rays draw water from the oceans, the sky carries it like an embryo, and after a period it returns to Earth as rain. Though expressed poetically, the verse closely resembles the concepts of evaporation, cloud formation, and precipitation.

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The geographical knowledge reflected in the Ramayana

The Valmiki Ramayana demonstrates remarkable geographical awareness. When Sugriva dispatches the Vānaras to search for Sita, he gives detailed descriptions of regions to the north, south, east, and west, mentioning rivers, mountains, forests, islands, seas, and distant lands. The directions suggest a broad knowledge of geography extending far beyond the boundaries of the kingdom of Kosala.

Among the places mentioned is Yavadvīpa, which many scholars identify with present-day Java in Indonesia, indicating familiarity with regions across Southeast Asia. (the following is not from '21 Notes Channel' - Some researchers have also proposed that certain descriptions in the Ramayana correspond to locations much farther away, including possible references to South America and the Andes. One frequently discussed example is the Paracas Candelabra geoglyph in Peru, which some enthusiasts believe resembles landmarks described in the search instructions given by Sugriva)

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21 Notes - Valmiki Ramayana

 Why the Ramayana and Mahabharata are called Itihāsa

The Ramayana and Mahabharata are classified as Itihāsa. Today, many people regard them as mythology or simply as stories. However, they are much more than that.

A traditional definition of Itihāsa is:

धर्मार्थकाममोक्षाणामुपदेशसमन्वितम् ।
पूर्ववृत्तकथायुक्तमितिहासं प्रचक्षते ॥

Transliteration

dharmārtha-kāma-mokṣāṇām upadeśa-samanvitam |
pūrvavṛtta-kathā-yuktam itihāsaṃ pracakṣate ||

Meaning

dharmārtha-kāma-mokṣāṇām upadeśa-samanvitam — containing instruction on the four puruṣārthas: Dharma (righteousness), Artha (wealth), Kāma (rightful desires), and Mokṣa (liberation).

pūrvavṛtta-kathā-yuktam — narrated in the form of stories about events that actually happened in the past.

itihāsaṃ pracakṣate — this is called Itihāsa.

In other words, Itihāsa is the narration of historical events in the form of stories, with the purpose of teaching the four goals of human life — Dharma, Artha, Kāma, and Mokṣa.

The history we study in school or college is usually presented as a sequence of dates, events, rulers, and wars. Most of us memorize it for examinations and forget much of it afterwards.

Itihāsa presents history differently. While it preserves historical events and chronology, its primary purpose is to teach us how to live. Through the lives of its characters, it shows us how to live a righteous life (Dharma), earn wealth ethically (Artha), fulfill legitimate desires responsibly (Kāma), and ultimately attain liberation (Mokṣa - The ultimate realization of the divine and freedom from worldly bondage).

The reason for Ramayana and Mahabharatha to be relevant nowadays is that all that history is described in story form (kathā-yuktam).

The historical events are presented in an engaging narrative (kathā-yuktam). The stories make the teachings memorable and relatable. Unfortunately, many of us become so absorbed in the narrative (or story form) that we stop at the story itself.

As a result, we spend our time asking questions such as:

How could Ravana have ten heads?
How could Hanuman, a monkey, speak?
How could Hanuman know all the Vedas and Śāstras?
How could he fly to Lanka?
What exactly is a Rākṣasa?

These questions arise because we focus almost exclusively on the 'story form', instead of asking what the text is trying to teach us through those events and characters.

The real purpose of the narrative is to help us understand how great personalities such as Rama, Sita, Hanuman, Bharata, Bhishma, Yudhishthira, and others lived according to Dharma, faced difficult choices, and demonstrated the principles of the puruṣārthas in real life.

With much of today's literature and audio/video content, it is often difficult to move beyond the narrative and appreciate the deeper intention of these texts.

Recently, I came across a lecture series that, in my opinion, bridges this gap remarkably well. It is suitable for both children and adults.

21 Notes – Valmiki Ramayan

https://youtu.be/dvhDQVCJcX8?si=7KVk8Ac9weINC-04

The speaker stays very close to the original Valmiki Ramayana and discusses what the text actually says, rather than relying on later popular retellings. Listening to it has challenged many assumptions I had carried for years.

Among the fascinating topics discussed are:

What exactly is a Rākṣasa?
Was Hanuman literally a monkey?
How is Hanuman's journey to Lanka described?
What was Ayodhya like—its society, governance, and level of civilization?
What was Bhagiratha's role in bringing the Ganga to Earth?
Does Valmiki describe concepts resembling the water cycle, such as evaporation and rainfall?
How extensive is the geographical knowledge reflected in the Ramayana?

Whether or not one agrees with every interpretation, the series offers a fresh perspective rooted in the original text rather than popular assumptions.

Personally, it has helped me clear away much of the clutter that prevented me from moving beyond the "story" and appreciating the deeper purpose of the Ramayana as an Itihāsa.

I hope it helps you as well.

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